Episode 6
Do Shooting Competitions Matter to Your Marketing? (ft. ANR Design)
Host John sits down with Alex Costa, owner and CEO of ANR Design, the New Hampshire shop behind Kydex holsters, mag carriers, a farmed-out nylon line, and the ANVL aluminum optic-mount and gun-parts brand. Alex walks through how the company grew from a broke college grad pressing Kydex in a basement into an 11-person manufacturer making white-label holsters for PSA, HK, SIG, FN, Beretta, and others. The two open by breaking down how little of the industry actually makes its own parts, then run through rapid-fire questions on mistakes, EDC choices, recent guns, and aliens.
A big stretch of the episode is a hands-on marketing argument. Alex says the major gun companies overpay a small pool of 'poster child' personalities and would get more by building a Rolodex of smaller creators. John, who ran marketing for an ammo company, agrees and lays out his own tiered system of creators from 1,000 to 250,000 subscribers, arguing that a stable of grateful smaller channels beats a few big names on reach, ROI, and risk. They cover the downside of betting a brand on one famous person, plus the value of giving product to garage shops that will put in 150% effort.
Competitions run through the whole conversation as the practical backbone of Alex's gun knowledge and content. He breaks down USPSA, PRS, two-gun, and NRL Hunter matches, why long range teaches you how your AR really behaves, how density altitude and wind shifts wreck your data, and the gear that helps, from Kestrels to ranging binos. The episode closes on review philosophy: Alex argues for candid, honest reviews that name a product's problems, gives examples of cans blowing up and overpriced rifles, and explains why the diverse American firearms market rewards companies that take feedback and improve.
Links
Questions this episode answers
Why do so few firearms companies actually make their own parts in house?
Alex Costa and host John open the episode by breaking down how little of the industry actually manufactures its own components, with most brands relying on outside shops. ANR Design itself makes white-label holsters for companies including PSA, HK, SIG, FN, and Beretta, which sell under those names.
Should brands spend their marketing budget on a few big-name personalities or a stable of smaller creators?
Alex argues the major gun companies overpay a small pool of 'poster child' personalities and would get more from building a Rolodex of smaller creators. A stable of grateful smaller channels beats a few big names on reach, ROI, and risk.
What is the ROI and risk difference between sponsoring large influencers versus small ones?
John, who ran marketing for an ammo company, lays out a tiered system of creators from 1,000 to 250,000 subscribers and argues a deep stable wins on return. Betting a brand on one famous person carries real downside, while smaller garage shops will put in 150 percent effort for the product they receive.
How did ANR Design grow from pressing Kydex in a basement to making white-label holsters for major manufacturers?
Alex started pressing Kydex after college rather than pay for a custom holster, and built the company from a broke college grad in a basement into an 11-person manufacturer. ANR Design now runs a facility in Manchester, New Hampshire and makes white-label holsters for PSA, HK, SIG, FN, and Beretta.
What can shooting long-range and PRS-style competitions teach you about your everyday rifle?
Alex says competitions are the practical backbone of his gun knowledge, and long range teaches you how your AR really behaves. Factors like density altitude and wind shifts wreck your data, and gear such as Kestrels and ranging binos helps you keep up.
Why is the .40 caliber considered a mistake to pick today, and how did it get popular?
The episode walks through the .40 caliber phase and why it once caught on. It is treated as a poor choice to pick now during the show's rapid-fire run through guns and EDC decisions.
Why does Alex think honest, blunt gun reviews matter more than calling every new release the best ever?
Alex argues for candid reviews that name a product's actual problems, pointing to examples of cans blowing up and overpriced rifles. The pattern of every new gun being called the best ever is not real, and honesty serves buyers better.
What makes the American firearms market different from Europe and Asia for product innovation?
Alex calls the United States the most diverse firearms market on the planet, which rewards companies that take feedback and improve. That competitive variety pushes makers to fix problems rather than coast.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Meet Alex Costa and ANR Design
- 01:22 — PSA and AAC sponsor gift
- 02:55 — Who actually makes their own parts
- 04:55 — Rapid fire: mistakes and EDC
- 08:58 — Lights, balance, and return to zero
- 09:43 — Most recent guns and the HK deal
- 12:40 — Aliens and odd creatures
- 14:46 — Getting into Kydex and holsters
- 18:28 — The .40 caliber phase explained
- 23:54 — What long range and PRS teach you
- 28:39 — Free state of New Hampshire
- 29:51 — Soapbox: fix the influencer model
- 31:16 — John's tiered creator system
- 41:14 — China cloning and CAD requests
- 46:25 — Why blunt, honest reviews matter
- 55:57 — American market and where to find ANR
About the guest
Alex Costa is the owner and CEO of ANR Design, a firearms equipment manufacturer he runs with business partner John Blevins. The company's main business is Kydex holsters, mag carriers, and inside-the-waistband concealment gear, with a nylon division farmed out to a partner in South Dakota and an aluminum optic-mount and gun-parts line called ANVL built by partners in Michigan. ANR Design has about 11 employees and makes white-label holsters for companies including PSA, HK, SIG, FN, and Beretta. Originally from Massachusetts, Alex grew up shooting in Boy Scouts and started pressing Kydex after college rather than pay for a custom holster. The company's manufacturing facility is in Manchester, New Hampshire. He holds a bachelor's in mechanical engineering and started an MBA before dropping out close to finishing. He shoots USPSA and two-gun and previously shot PRS competitions.
Key quotes
"Just because they have someone has a million followers on Instagram doesn't mean that their conversion rate's good." — Alex Costa
"You get someone with 10,000 followers that those people are going to beat pavement for your brand." — Alex Costa
"There's a lot that you can learn from shooting long range competitions." — Alex Costa
"If you're always just like on YouTube, all these, like, you see a gun come out, you see everyone post a new video, and it's always like, this is the best gun ever. Like, that's not real." — Alex Costa
"It's so much better ROI to have a stable between 10 to 250,000 subs and have that big stable" — John
"We are so lucky that we have the most diverse firearms market on planet Earth." — Alex Costa
Transcript
Welcome to Goa, say the second podcast.
Speaker A:My name is John and today I'm joined by Alex from ANR Design.
Speaker A:Alex, how are you today?
Speaker B:I'm great.
Speaker B:How are you?
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:So tell the people who you are and all that other fun stuff.
Speaker B:My name is Alex Costa.
Speaker B:I am the owner and CEO of A& R Design.
Speaker B:I do have a beautiful business partner named John Blevins who is never in any videos or anything.
Speaker B:He hides, but he is fantastic.
Speaker B:I am a equipment manufacturer.
Speaker B:We kind of identify ourselves as like a do it all shop.
Speaker B:Our principal income in business is Kydex holsters, mag carriers, on person stuff, mostly inside the waistband concealment items.
Speaker B:But we also have a nylon division that we farm out to our buddy in South Dakota.
Speaker B:And we have a aluminum goods optic mount and optical accessories.
Speaker B:Well, not just optical accessories, but gun part side to the business as well that our friends in Michigan build parts for us.
Speaker B:And that brand is called Anvil anvl.
Speaker B:So we have a pretty diverse portfolio.
Speaker B:But yeah, holsters.
Speaker A:Holsters are great.
Speaker B:Plastic buckets, even better.
Speaker A:Well, before we go on to our first segment, we have to give you a little gift here.
Speaker A:This is from our friends over at Palmetto and AAC Ammo.
Speaker A:Our good friend Cameron sponsors the podcast for the year.
Speaker A:You'll be getting a gift package from them.
Speaker A:I don't know if it's exactly this, but you'll be getting a gift package from them.
Speaker A:You can, you can fight Cameron off camera if you want.
Speaker B:Off camera.
Speaker B:I'll just text him.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'll send them feet pics tonight.
Speaker A:So again, thank you Palmetto and Cameron for doing this for us.
Speaker A:So all our guests this year are gonna get a cool, cool gift from psa.
Speaker B:I love you, Cameron.
Speaker A:We all love you, Cameron.
Speaker A:But psa, big supporters of GOA and the Second Amendment so wanted to hop on and be a sponsor for that.
Speaker A:So you get a cool gift from them at some point.
Speaker B:And we, we make a ton of PSA holsters now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So shout out to PSA for choosing us to do holsters for them.
Speaker B:I appreciate you guys.
Speaker A:So first, you know, they're.
Speaker A:I love all the guys over there.
Speaker A:They're good dudes, good people.
Speaker A:When Jamin was on just.
Speaker A:I love his like no nonsense kind of attack on life.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's just, nah, no compromise.
Speaker A:No compromise is.
Speaker A:And just his business sense, he's like, yeah, we had this issue.
Speaker A:So I bought a company, I was like, cool.
Speaker A:And then I bought another company.
Speaker A:I was like, okay.
Speaker B:I mean it's the smart thing to Do.
Speaker A:Oh, it's the smartest way.
Speaker B:When you have the financial power that they have, the purchasing power that they have, they can do a lot well.
Speaker A:And that's the big, the big issue everybody runs into is when you get.
Speaker A:Hold up if anybody.
Speaker A:I'm going to break the fourth wall.
Speaker A:Nobody makes their own stuff.
Speaker A:A lot of people don't make their own stuff.
Speaker A:People buy parts like you would.
Speaker A:It's, it's just more cost effective.
Speaker A:But when we went, we went and did a tour of the PSA facility and we're walking through and I'm like, with Cameron I'm like are those buffer tubes?
Speaker A:He goes yeah, you're making your own buffer tubes?
Speaker A:He's like yeah.
Speaker A:Nobody makes their own buffer tips.
Speaker A:Everybody buys them springs Spring.
Speaker A:They're doing that.
Speaker A:They're doing, they're making everything.
Speaker B:One company makes all the springs you buy.
Speaker B:You go to some company that makes has only springs on their website, they don't make springs, you know.
Speaker A:Well it's, it's the same thing.
Speaker B:Nobody buffers you buy at nights.
Speaker B:You buy anyone else you know, you buy.
Speaker B:Pick another company.
Speaker B:It's got the same buffer made by the same.
Speaker B:Well not the same buffer but a buffer made by the same company.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, sorry we've blown your mind.
Speaker B:The only, I would say the only other than PSA making their own stuff.
Speaker B:The only other company that truly does make all their stuff in house would be like CZ ub, like the like or some of the major brands from Europe that are 210 acres of manufacturing facility with the town built in a donut around the the manufacturing campus.
Speaker B:Those are the companies would make their own stuff.
Speaker B:But stateside.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's all MIM parts.
Speaker B:It's all.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, you're buying it from, you're buying your springs from Spring Co or somebody Azimuth does Smith does a bunch of stuff.
Speaker B:Bolt carriers, barrels, slides, slide blanks.
Speaker A:If I was allowed to say stuff.
Speaker A:Sorry, I'm not, I'm not allowed to say.
Speaker B:But yes, I know you can bleep that company.
Speaker B:No, it's industry stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, industry stuff.
Speaker A:Your handguards all come from one place.
Speaker B:They're all extruded somewhere, you know.
Speaker A:Well now that we got into that and broke the fourth wall, let's go ahead and get into our first segment which is rapid fire questions.
Speaker A:I'm going to ask you five questions.
Speaker A:You answer it as quickly or slowly as you want.
Speaker A:This segment is brought to you by Blackout Coffee.
Speaker A:Check out Blackout Coffee's goa.
Speaker A:No compromise blend all the, the portion of that goes back to goa.
Speaker A:Support companies that support you a get your caffeine take or hit from blackout coffee.
Speaker A:You can actually get it from our web store as well.
Speaker A:So first question I've got for you.
Speaker A:If you could go back in time and change any point in history, would.
Speaker B:You know every mistake I've made?
Speaker B:Which is every.
Speaker B:Every mistake that I've paid for is.
Speaker B:I'm a trial by fire guy.
Speaker B:You don't know till you fail.
Speaker B:And then you just find that end goal, find that solution and move towards it.
Speaker B:Every single mistake, we.
Speaker B:I mean, swear to God, every mistake.
Speaker B:Yeah, I still make mistakes.
Speaker B:Even 10 years in, we still make mistakes.
Speaker B:We still make bad judgment calls, bad purchasing calls, bad, bad extrapolations of data, whatever.
Speaker B:We still make those mistakes.
Speaker B:And every single one of them is a learning opportunity to grow from and not make those mistakes again.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I agree with that.
Speaker B:No, no regerts, no regrets.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is that tattooed somewhere?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Okay, next I've got.
Speaker A:What is your go to edc?
Speaker B:Well, great question.
Speaker B:I do rotate through a lot because I own a holster company.
Speaker B:So right now I started shooting USPSA and two gun last year more religiously.
Speaker B:Competition wise.
Speaker B:I would do like PRs prior to that.
Speaker B:Then I show up to USPSA with a cz shadow 2 all tricked out for carry optics.
Speaker B:And it's great gun, but I built out a Glock 47, added a ZR tactical brass guide rod and 18 pound spring, put a CNH brass plug in the grip and put the Glock performance trigger in it.
Speaker B:And that thing shoots almost as flat as some of my CZs.
Speaker B:So I rotate between a Cajun Gunworks CZ SP01 Tactical and a Glock 47.
Speaker B:Right now, currently that's dope.
Speaker B:You can make those Glocks shoot soft.
Speaker A:Oh, the amount of people that I know have spent poodles of money to make their Glock shoot soft.
Speaker A:It's insane.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That trigger that.
Speaker B:Yeah, that glock triggers like 79 bucks from Glock on sale.
Speaker B:The zero tactical guide rod assembly I think is like 50 or 60 bucks.
Speaker B:And then the plug on sale at C and h is like 40 bucks.
Speaker B:And it shoots stupid flat.
Speaker A:It's not bad.
Speaker B:No, it.
Speaker B:I learned a lot about balance.
Speaker B:A lot of people will put tactical lights on the front of their guns and they're like, oh, this is gonna make me shoot flatter.
Speaker B:And it's like, okay, it does prevent muzzle rise, but then you're going pass, go with your.
Speaker B:Your red Dot like return to zero is big.
Speaker B:So like a lot of people would bash like Sigs guns and say oh six guns have a high height over bore but if they're built and balanced right, you can get a return to zero.
Speaker B:So even if it has a higher sight over bore and a little bit fatter recoil impulse, it's where every time it ends up on the same part of the target, your point of aim, point of impact in a return to zero, you can shoot really fast and really flat.
Speaker B:So balance, balance is the key.
Speaker B:I stopped carrying a tactical light on my edc.
Speaker B:People are like well how are you pid your targets?
Speaker B:Like how am I going to check something going on with my motor while pointing my gun at it?
Speaker B:So I always carry a little surefire E1D defender.
Speaker B:I've had this for like 5 years now.
Speaker B:Goes everywhere with me.
Speaker B:It's got a strike strike tool on it and it flies with me.
Speaker B:And I need a flashlight.
Speaker B:I got a flashlight.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm the same way.
Speaker A:I don't do weapon mounted lights.
Speaker A:I always just carry a flashlight.
Speaker A:When I carry I don't get.
Speaker A:It's a whole nother crowd of arguments.
Speaker B:With people, perspectives both ways.
Speaker B:I'd rather shoot faster, flatter faster, like softer, more rounds where I want them to go.
Speaker B:It's just crazy.
Speaker B:You see all guys shooting USPSA and no one shoots with lights, you know.
Speaker B:And then you start talking about balance and your ability to do faster follow up shots and getting that dot back where you want it and take a light off balance the gun.
Speaker B:That's why I added weight forward and aft to give that Glock a little bit more weight to it and shoots great.
Speaker A:All right, I love that.
Speaker A:But this next one is.
Speaker A:What's the most recent gun you got.
Speaker B:Hk?
Speaker B:I don't since I have an FFL sot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Most of the guns have been on the books for a long time.
Speaker B:The most recent gun that we got is a BLEEP from PSA and can't talk about it.
Speaker B:And the second most recent gun would be an HK CC9.
Speaker B:HK signed us on to do holsters for the new pistol.
Speaker A:How do you like that?
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker B:It's snappy.
Speaker B:It'll be nice when aftermarket recoil springs come out for it so you can smooth it out, balance it, match it to the loads you're shooting.
Speaker B:But they built it to the NATO was it 225ac specs, a 15,000 round torture test to NATO specifically.
Speaker B:Its ergonomics are great triggers, good controls are Good.
Speaker B:It's just snappy.
Speaker A:Just like.
Speaker A:The HK has separated themselves from Germany and made HK USA and has actually come out with some cool stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, they've got some pretty cool plans and we're really happy that they decided to include us.
Speaker B:And I posted a photo of a grenade launcher holster we made for LMT.
Speaker B:And I had to make a M320HK one for a customer of ours.
Speaker B:And then they saw that in a Facebook group that I was in, one of their guys on the defense side.
Speaker B:And then that's how we were introduced to hk.
Speaker A:Angela.
Speaker A:Are you working with Angela?
Speaker B:I know Angela.
Speaker B:No, I met Angela years ago.
Speaker B:But no, through the defense side.
Speaker B:I won't name names on the defense side, but we made holsters for this new pistol and they were like, hell yeah.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker A:I worked with.
Speaker A:I used to work with two of the guys who are over there now.
Speaker A:Nathan, Director of Sales, and then Todd holding, who's in their engineering department now.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:He used to own Holding Holding Precision.
Speaker A:Todd, if you watch this, correct me, but Todd's good people.
Speaker A:Nathan's good people.
Speaker A:Everybody over at HK usa, they wanted.
Speaker A:They want stuff.
Speaker A:I know everybody makes fun of HK saying hates customers, but they did want stuff here.
Speaker B:Always wanted to do stuff here.
Speaker B:It's Germany.
Speaker B:Gatekeeping.
Speaker B:It's your.
Speaker A:It's Europe.
Speaker A:It's Europe.
Speaker B:Europe has like every company that's European based that we work with.
Speaker B:You've got the US side that's always pushing really hard for US market stuff.
Speaker B:And then the European side will be like, well, we don't do that here.
Speaker B:It's like, of course you don't do that here.
Speaker B:Like, but 80% of your business comes from the United States.
Speaker B:Why wouldn't you build more things to cater to the States?
Speaker B:Do you hate money?
Speaker A:I think they do.
Speaker A:I really do.
Speaker B:It's just weird.
Speaker B:They have different principles versus not principals versus direction versus partners, board of directors, boomers.
Speaker A:Yeah, we'll get into the boomers later.
Speaker A:So let's see, we have.
Speaker A:I think that was question number four.
Speaker A:Number five.
Speaker A:And the last one is trying to think of what's a good one for you.
Speaker A:But I guess we're gonna go with.
Speaker A:Are aliens real?
Speaker A:Do you believe in.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure, we're here.
Speaker A:Are you an ancient alien kind of guy?
Speaker B:No, not really.
Speaker B:I don't really watch tv.
Speaker B:But you know, if we're here and there's some weird animals on Earth, there's going to be some stuff elsewhere.
Speaker A:I can't remember what was I watching the other Day there was something.
Speaker A:I watched that.
Speaker A:There's a little.
Speaker A:It looks like a deer, but it's got, like, nostrils on its head that open up, and I'm like, that is not from this planet, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's like a dick dick or something.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean.
Speaker B:I mean, axis that you can hunt in Texas, which is from India.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:Their sinuses are external to their face, so they get these, like, weird little flaps.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's some platypus.
Speaker B:Like, there's one for you.
Speaker A:It's a design flaw.
Speaker A:It's like somebody puts, like, I'm gonna throw everything together.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or water bears.
Speaker B:Like, you boil water, it doesn't always kill them.
Speaker B:Like, they're pretty cool, too.
Speaker A:Water bear.
Speaker A:Oh, I know.
Speaker A:I remember.
Speaker A:I know what you're talking about.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Water bears, like, the only organism that can, like, live in space for a certain amount of time.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You can, like, eject them into, like, actual space.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker B:Allegedly.
Speaker A:Who's trying this?
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Some people think they showed up on Earth on a meteorite or something.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, I believe that there's life elsewhere.
Speaker A:I'm with you on that.
Speaker A:It's gotta be.
Speaker B:Space is cold.
Speaker A:There's no way their space is dope.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, to think that we're the only thing on a rock in the middle of this giant space.
Speaker A:Or we could go with, like, the Men in Black theory.
Speaker A:We're actually all on marvels.
Speaker B:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker A:Who knows?
Speaker B:Elon Musk.
Speaker B:Terraform, Mars for us, please.
Speaker B:What are the gun laws that are going to be, like, freedom, maybe.
Speaker A:I hope.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:All right, so you do holsters.
Speaker A:You do a bunch of cool stuff.
Speaker A:What made you get into that?
Speaker B:I'm from Massachusetts originally, and I grew up shooting guns and Boy Scouts.
Speaker B:My family told my family I used to shoot a lot in Boy Scouts, but that was kind of like, where I was allowed to shoot.
Speaker B:My mom didn't want guns in the house.
Speaker B:When you tell your kid who wants to be an engineer, no, you do exactly the opposite.
Speaker B:Great family, great parents.
Speaker B:But I always had a cap gun collection, a knife collection, whatever.
Speaker B:That's why my dad brought my cap gun collection up and dumped it in my garage the other day.
Speaker B:That was cool.
Speaker B:Thanks for all the junk.
Speaker A:Parents.
Speaker A:Good for that, though.
Speaker B:They unload stuff into my garage, and then I find it after they leave because they can't throw it away.
Speaker B:They can't emotionally bring themselves to throw it away.
Speaker A:So they bring it to you?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, they do it.
Speaker B:They sneak stuff in all the time.
Speaker B:They're like, it's horrible.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:But anyway, sorry to divert.
Speaker B:I don't want to.
Speaker B:I squirrel.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:We could.
Speaker B:I got a.
Speaker B:Got a fire.
Speaker B:My parents bought me a shotgun when I was still in college because I wanted to like shoot, trap and ski.
Speaker B:I turned 21, got my carry to conceal a class in Massachusetts.
Speaker B:And yeah, got a gun, got a pistol, wanted to take classes.
Speaker B:Saw that there was a requirement for gear holster.
Speaker B:Two mag carriers for pistol.
Speaker B:And my buddy sold me like an MX6, MX2.
Speaker B:I don't remember whatever the old Insight technologies lights were that had the crossbar that you had to pull down with your fingers.
Speaker B:Yeah, horrible.
Speaker B:The tool for holsters.
Speaker B:And so I reached out to.
Speaker B:I think at time it was like Raven Concealment, Bravo were like the only two holster companies.
Speaker B:And I basically asked them to quote me out for a holster.
Speaker B:Like an owb strongside and like two pistol mag carriers for my M&P40.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was my first pistol.
Speaker B:Make fun of me.
Speaker B:It's fine, you know, 40, 40.
Speaker B:I knew stopping power wasn't real.
Speaker B:As an engineer, I was like, you can't quantify something that's not quantifiable.
Speaker B:But I think it was like a $450 quote for a custom made holster.
Speaker B:They needed me to mail the light in and I was like, 450 bucks.
Speaker B:I just got out of college, I'm broke.
Speaker B:And then my buddy who was living with me at the time, he's like, dude, why don't you just go on YouTube and look how to like, look up how to use Kydex.
Speaker B:And I had used Kydex before.
Speaker B:I didn't know that.
Speaker B:It was like, oh, that's what that is.
Speaker B:And so I just bought.
Speaker B:Went to Home Depot and built a press and bought some Kydex off of some website and started pressing holsters, wearing it to classes, wearing it, posting all my creations on Instagram.
Speaker B:And at the same time, I did start my business with.
Speaker B:Around the same time I started a business with a little bit after with guy from work.
Speaker B:And we were 3D printing like firearms, novelty stuff like tie bars, money clips, cufflinks, like stupid stuff.
Speaker B:And we used a company called Shapeways out of New York.
Speaker B:So people can just like pick the material they want.
Speaker B:It would print and they could get it.
Speaker B:So that's kind of like just doing some weird stuff.
Speaker B:Jewelry.
Speaker B:And I was making holsters and the holsters, like people were offering me money at Events on Instagram.
Speaker B:So like, hey, I just want to buy a holster from you.
Speaker B:How much was.
Speaker B:I don't know, $40.
Speaker B:Like I don't know what this was worth.
Speaker B:That's kind of how it snowballed.
Speaker B:Started making gear from ourselves and then started making holsters in the basement.
Speaker A:I mean, listen, you're not a real gun guy unless you went through a 40 phase at one point in your life.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:I mean, we all did it at one point.
Speaker B:We can blame the FBI for that.
Speaker A: lame Obama because during the: Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:But as a cheap.
Speaker A:Like I was in when that happened, I was in college.
Speaker A:And so I did buy a, uh.
Speaker A:What did I get?
Speaker A:I think I still have it.
Speaker A:It was a Sig SP 20, 22 and 40.
Speaker A:Because it was.
Speaker A:They were cheap at the time.
Speaker A:They were like 300 reliable.
Speaker A:Reliable.
Speaker A:And it came with night sights and a holster, if you want to call it a holster.
Speaker B:When everyone thought night sights were cool.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then for, for 300 bucks, it's like, cool, I'll buy it.
Speaker A:And then because 40 was cheap, I could still train.
Speaker A:And then 40 became dumb again.
Speaker B:It was always dumb because 357 sig existed.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:But I think at the time there wasn't like gun Tube didn't exist.
Speaker B:YouTube was really, it was an infancy stage and online publications were almost zero.
Speaker B:So people are getting their information out of print and yeah.
Speaker B:And then you have this overwhelming boomer release of data that, oh, 40 FBI picked.
Speaker B:It has to be good, you know, and then, and then people invent terms like stopping power, knock down power.
Speaker B:And then you're just like, oh, well, I don't really know what to research.
Speaker B:I don't have a ton of gun friends where I was at at the time either.
Speaker B:You know, I just got out of college and I'm like, I want a gun.
Speaker B:And I didn't have people that could like steer me away from that.
Speaker B:Even like, like in mass, you have to go take a class.
Speaker B:It's like a one on one.
Speaker B:And that guy was like, never drop the hammer.
Speaker B:Never dry fire a gun.
Speaker B:You'll break it.
Speaker B:Don't ever drop the hammer on this.
Speaker B:Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:Like that was the information that you were getting fed at the time.
Speaker B:So I was like, I'll just get a 40.
Speaker A:That was the.
Speaker A:I still have.
Speaker A:I went, I went into A gun shop about a month or two ago, I still had somebody said, don't dry fire.
Speaker A:It wasn't.
Speaker A:It was an unreal fire.
Speaker A:It was a modern striker.
Speaker A:Don't dry fire.
Speaker A:I was like, can I dry fire this?
Speaker A:I want to feel the trigger.
Speaker A:No, it'll break it.
Speaker A:When would.
Speaker A:When did this myth come up?
Speaker B:Wilson Wilson said it like two months ago on his Instagram.
Speaker A:Did he really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Anyway.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker B:If you pick a 40 now in life, you really have been watching the wrong videos.
Speaker B:I think there's so much an over.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:I just peaked there.
Speaker B:There's an overwhelming whistle peak.
Speaker B:There's an overwhelming amount of information on the Internet.
Speaker B:Don't pick 40.
Speaker B:Like, 9 millimeter is great.
Speaker A:I think most people are buying 40s now only because they're police traders and.
Speaker B:Cheap as dirt or competition shooters that are loading that too to hit the power factor.
Speaker B:That's about it.
Speaker A:That's still something.
Speaker A:I don't, don't understand that power factor nonsense.
Speaker B:Grain, weight, velocity.
Speaker A:It doesn't make.
Speaker B:Has a measurement.
Speaker A:It doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker A:Just let me shoot what I want to shoot.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, I'm going to shoot major in uspsa, but I'm gonna shoot an open gun that shoots like a.22.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna get more points for my alphas than you do or Charlie's or whatever.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:It's competition things.
Speaker B:Funny.
Speaker A:Gosh.
Speaker B:I shoot competition.
Speaker B:It's fun.
Speaker A:I need to blast.
Speaker A:Yeah, I wouldn't.
Speaker A:I really do want.
Speaker A:I want to go shoot a PRS match so bad.
Speaker B:Call me before you do.
Speaker A:I will.
Speaker A:Cuz I'm getting my stuff set up now.
Speaker B:I've got some great YouTube videos.
Speaker B:I do full commentary of like, what position, what bag.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:Why I've got videos on how to zero scopes and data.
Speaker B:Oh, dude, I nerd for PRs.
Speaker A:I just want.
Speaker A:I got addicted to long range shooting.
Speaker A: ago, and we went out to like: Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker A:It's like if you've never shot long, I'm gonna break the fourth wall again.
Speaker A:Long range is not 300 yards, folks.
Speaker A:Like, that's a good distance, but that's not long range shooting.
Speaker B:400 yards is barely long range.
Speaker A:Like thousand yards plus once you start hitting thousand yard plus the.
Speaker B:I'd say 700.
Speaker B: to: Speaker A:Yeah, it's at the addiction the like I didn't know how addicting it was until I did it.
Speaker B:Long range could be defined as when wind starts to move you significantly at distance depending on grain weight.
Speaker B:So like long distance for 5, 5, 6,000 yards.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:There's some cool rounds coming out for 5, 5, 6.
Speaker B:I think black arc just came out with like an 80.5 grain.
Speaker B:Badlands has been loading 85 grains in the NAS3 cases.
Speaker B:So that's a big bullet.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And those stainless steel, you know, split cases.
Speaker B:Cool stuff, you know, just not a ton of data on these different grain weights.
Speaker B:So if you're putting into applied ballistics or whatever.
Speaker B:Anyway, if you get into long range, you'll actually understand your normal AR a lot better and what your AR is capable of.
Speaker B:You know, you get dudes roll up to matches.
Speaker B:Like I shoot 55 grain and you're like, oh well there's a going out at 600 yards.
Speaker B:You know, rounds are blowing off.
Speaker B:I think PRS teaches a lot.
Speaker B:There's a lot that you can learn from shooting long range competitions.
Speaker B:Building position.
Speaker B:So like getting behind a barricade and setting your body up.
Speaker B:Is your dominant leg up when you're kneeling behind something.
Speaker B:When to do two knees down.
Speaker B:How to support your rifle off of tripods using bags.
Speaker B:People are like oh, look at that cuddle bag pillow.
Speaker B:It's like, yeah, dude, three points of contact.
Speaker B:Throwing a 30 pound rifle, doing a cattle gate under time.
Speaker B:You get really good at moving your gun.
Speaker B:I think that's important as well.
Speaker B:Understanding wind and just understanding what like environment does like oh cool, the clouds.
Speaker B:It's a hot day and the clouds just kicked over.
Speaker B:Your density, altitude and barometrics are going to change and now your bullet's going to drop or it's going to rise and it could shift you by a foot at a thousand yards because you went 1/10 off on your data.
Speaker A:Well and that's, that was what I was a novice and that's what really blew my mind.
Speaker A:We took the class up in Idaho.
Speaker A:So you got high desert.
Speaker A:You know we went back to and I live in Phoenix.
Speaker A:We went back to Phoenix and we went to go shoot the same distance.
Speaker A:So I'm like, all right, I've got already have all my data just clicked it in and I'm like what the heck is happening?
Speaker A:I'm not hitting where I'm aiming.
Speaker A:I'm not.
Speaker A:There's something's going off.
Speaker A:And I did I re put everything.
Speaker A:This was when Trilogy we could use to still use the cool app.
Speaker A:Sure And I put all the.
Speaker A:I went to go put in my data again and updated and I was like, oh, I'm way off.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, everything.
Speaker B: h, you just grab your Kestrel: Speaker B:Then if you get involved in PRS, the community's good.
Speaker B:I kind of took a break from it.
Speaker B:Cause it was a lot of travel.
Speaker B:There was no good places local within two or three hours of me.
Speaker B:So I started shooting two guns.
Speaker B:And then like the community kind of got weird.
Speaker B:Like it got way too egotistical.
Speaker B:Like at least local to me.
Speaker B:Like there's a lot of ego, a lot of drama.
Speaker B:People get upset over silly things.
Speaker B:I was like, all right, take a break.
Speaker B:A lot of guys I shoot PRs with also kind of took a break.
Speaker B:I want more like NRL hunter matches near me where it's like a spot and shoot like you're behind something or you're off stage.
Speaker B:You don't know anything about stage.
Speaker B:You get up there, range guys like, all right, your targets are A, C and B somewhere in this sector.
Speaker B:Go.
Speaker B:And then that's when, like having binos, like the Sig 10Ks, you can put your data into the binos.
Speaker B:So when you lase a target, gives your hold.
Speaker A:Oh, that's dope.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then all you do is put your data per stage.
Speaker B:So you put your Kestrel data into it and you literally just lays it.
Speaker B:And so you literally, like get in position where you know you're going to be shooting that direction.
Speaker B:Build your position, get behind your gun, and then you just bring your hands up.
Speaker B:Find spot, find your target, lase it.
Speaker B:Drop your binos.
Speaker B:Like carry a bino chest rig.
Speaker B:Dump your binos, get behind your gun, shoot it and find the next target.
Speaker B:Lase it, shoot it.
Speaker B:Those are cool.
Speaker B:Like that's what I'd really like to.
Speaker A:Do more of probably what I need to get I.
Speaker A:Right now my build is in 65 PRC we went out to.
Speaker A:So far we've gone out to 980 with it.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker A:I'm just trying to work in it.
Speaker A:But since we're in the desert, our targets are up on a mountain.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So once you.
Speaker A:It's so weird because you try to get a win call.
Speaker A:It's desert.
Speaker A:Nothing's freaking moving because everything's.
Speaker B:But you get splash at least, right?
Speaker A:We got some splash that'll give you wind.
Speaker A:It gave us just enough wind call to get it.
Speaker A:But since we were going from the valley to the top of the mountain, the wind shift from where it was at trying to figure it out and dial it was just running into so many issues.
Speaker B:That's like you got to do a confirmation shot, almost see your wind and then you don't see your crosswinds if you don't have grass.
Speaker B:And like the other big complaint is when they do the New England regional matches, you know, Ridgeline used to host them.
Speaker B:You'd be shooting into vegetation with no splash.
Speaker B:You don't, you don't see anything.
Speaker B:You're like, where did I miss?
Speaker B:Was I off left?
Speaker B:Oh, the wind switch.
Speaker B:Cause it's a toilet bowl of wind.
Speaker B:Where did I go?
Speaker B:And then you get all the pros all grumpy because they can't.
Speaker B:Yeah, they go shoot Oklahoma and they get grass everywhere.
Speaker B:And then they go out to Northeast and they're like a lot of the pros won't shoot the Northeast matches because it's just, they'll drop them on the leaderboards for the year for PRs.
Speaker B:It's rough in New England shooting, but it's good.
Speaker B:You learn a lot.
Speaker A:So you grew up in Mass.
Speaker A:Where are you at now?
Speaker B:Our manufacturing facility is in Manchester, New Hampshire.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Enjoy.
Speaker B:Love it.
Speaker A:Free state of New Hampshire.
Speaker B:People don't realize how free New Hampshire is.
Speaker B:We have the right to protect ourselves in our vehicle with any weapon.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:You can have a machine gun transferable in the front seat and defend your vehicle and yourself with that weapon.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:Super.
Speaker B:That law superseded the fishing game law of no loaded rifle up front because that was like a poaching law.
Speaker B:But you can have any weapon up front.
Speaker B:Now, obviously, if you're driving up on bird hunting and you have a loaded side by side in the front seat and fishing game off pulls you over, you're going to get dinged for that.
Speaker B:But they got rid of the loaded rifle law recently and it's.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:You have the right to defend yourself with any weapon, including a pkm.
Speaker B:So cool.
Speaker A:Including a pk.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hunting with suppressors is legal.
Speaker B:Hunting predators with thermals.
Speaker B:Legal constitutional.
Speaker B:Carry machine guns.
Speaker B:It's all shall issue.
Speaker B:It's a shall issue state.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:For everything.
Speaker B:So it's cool.
Speaker A:Well, we are about halfway through this episode, so we're going to go on to our next segment which is called from the Soapbox.
Speaker A:It's where we talk policy, our biggest frustrations and our gripes against the etf, which is going to be fun.
Speaker A:This this segment is brought to you by Patriot Mobile.
Speaker A:Make sure to go to Patriot Mobile and use code goa.
Speaker A:That gets you one month free with Patriot Mobile great pro freedom cell phone service that you can get and get away from those big carriers.
Speaker A:Again, that's Patriot Mobile.
Speaker A:Use code GOA for one month free on your bill.
Speaker A:So from the soapbox we're going to talk about what is one thing in the industry that you would change right now?
Speaker B:I would make all the major gun companies that use poster child bro vets that they pass around like this person works here, doesn't work there anymore, now works here.
Speaker B:There's just this like, I don't know why, but all these major companies have someone in marketing that's like, we have to have this guy cause he did this.
Speaker B:And you're just like, come on, start working with smaller companies.
Speaker B:Like I'm a super tiny company, A and R, we have like 11 employees.
Speaker B:But companies like SIG are super cool.
Speaker B:SIG has us doing holsters for their store and for their web store.
Speaker B:HK just picked this up.
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker B:We're tiny.
Speaker B:They've got a million people to choose from, but they chose to work with us.
Speaker B:I think your biggest bang for your buck if you're going to get influencers working for you is you should start working with you.
Speaker B:The major corporations should start getting essentially a Rolodex or a library of smaller influencers on social media that have.
Speaker B:Just because they have someone has a million followers on Instagram doesn't mean that their conversion rate's good.
Speaker B:Or maybe their target audience is a bunch of boomer dudes that wish, you know, oh, I was a paper pusher in the military.
Speaker B:I wish I deployed all this guy.
Speaker B:So and so is is a ranger, cag, former, you know, whatever, tech P.
Speaker B:And instead of like always picking those guys to rep your brand and you're going to get X out of them and it's not worth the quarter million dollars you pay them a year to rep your product.
Speaker B:Like maybe work with smaller companies that might have smaller followings that are pushing out quality information.
Speaker B:They're not always just shilling.
Speaker B:They're not saying the wrong model numbers for things.
Speaker B:They're not telling you that this caliber and this is the best thing you should carry.
Speaker B:But they're, they're going to get more.
Speaker B:These smaller companies I think have more active followers.
Speaker B:You get someone with 10,000 followers that those people are going to beat pavement for your brand.
Speaker B:Everything that they show up to and go to, like, let's say SIG picks someone real small to work with.
Speaker B:That person is going to be so proud to work for a company like SIG or FN or Whatever.
Speaker B:They're going to go balls to the wall for that company and you're going to.
Speaker B:They might not have millions of followers, but they're going to leave an impact.
Speaker B:Now you could have a fleet of those people at the same cost that you're going to pay a big name and probably get a better reach.
Speaker A:You are preaching to the choir, brother.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:So I had a long.
Speaker A:I was a marketing manager for an ammo company a couple years ago and I had my system.
Speaker A:My system was like, I call this the small guy.
Speaker A:So small guys would be like 1 to 10,000 subs.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:I need 20 or 30 of them because they're not going to ask for much and I know I can get them and I'm going to get a bigger ROI out of them from just because they.
Speaker A:I don't know how you feel, but if I get.
Speaker A:If anybody sends anything for free, oh my God, thank you.
Speaker A:Like, that's the world.
Speaker A:And then I go 10 to 10, about 55.
Speaker A:I call them my small medium guys.
Speaker A:I get a good chunk of them.
Speaker A:Then I go 50,000 to like 250,000 subs.
Speaker A:Those were my bigger, medium, larger guys.
Speaker A:And I do them.
Speaker A:I knew each one.
Speaker A:I knew who would I would get and how much more reach I would get.
Speaker A:And then I have like a stable of like the 2, 2 or 3, like tactical toolbox, one of the larger guys.
Speaker A:And maybe I've 88 or maybe it's so much better ROI.
Speaker A:And again, my.
Speaker A:My opinion is it's so much better ROI to have a stable between 10 to 250,000 subs and have that big stable than having three of the, the large guys that I'm paying, like you said, almost half a million dollars to or a quarter million dollars or whatever you got to pay them to do a video or anything where I could have all these guys send them a case of ammo.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they'll be happy for some of them 10 videos, some of them five videos.
Speaker A:But I get five or six videos out and 10 people.
Speaker A:And then all these people are now talking in their conjoined reach and they will push the living daylights out of you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Can you imagine having just vlogging reels on Instagram?
Speaker B:You have 10,000 followers.
Speaker B:You build a couple cool guns a year.
Speaker B:You shoot people follow you for that.
Speaker B:And then some major manufacturers, like pick three gun, three pistols a year and one rifle a year.
Speaker B:We'll.
Speaker B:We'll hook it up.
Speaker B:Just do some cool content for us.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker B:Like, oh my God, those Dudes will give you so much back.
Speaker A:Oh, and I don't understand not even a gut.
Speaker B:But I mean, but that's the thing.
Speaker B:I got a gun it.
Speaker A:Even with the smaller guys.
Speaker A:Like, this is what I love about the smaller guys.
Speaker A:They could.
Speaker A:They come in and they'll be, this is who I am.
Speaker A:I know my following.
Speaker A:Something's not big, but this is what I'll do for you.
Speaker A:And I'm grateful.
Speaker A:And they're always grateful.
Speaker A:They're always willing to push you call them at the hey, I got this going on.
Speaker A:You can you push it?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I'll push it.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It was a lot better to have those than.
Speaker A:And you'll.
Speaker A:You'll see it at shot is they'll come in and you'll get the smaller guys and they're.
Speaker A:They're like, yeah, I know I've got 10,000 subs.
Speaker A:I'm not a big channel, but, you know, anything will help.
Speaker A:And I'll push it real hard.
Speaker A:And when they get stuff, they push the living daylights out of it.
Speaker A:It's better than.
Speaker A:Instead of like, I'm not gonna say any names, but somebody could.
Speaker A:You don't know who I am.
Speaker A:You know who I meant?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Or risk.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not risk of investment, but like the bigger dudes or bigger people or bigger whatever entities if there's any drama associated with them.
Speaker B:Negative drama that impacts your brand.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:So if some big corporation gun company picks this person and that person gets arrested or does this that.
Speaker B:Then you've got millions of people going, how could they.
Speaker B:Why the writing was on the wall?
Speaker B:Why did they hire that person?
Speaker B:And then you assume all this risk involved with a super famous person.
Speaker B:So you get that caveat.
Speaker B:You got both directions.
Speaker B:You got the, okay, they have a good reach.
Speaker B:But is there reach the people that I want to hit?
Speaker B:Sure, if you're.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:Anyway, so.
Speaker B:But you're also assuming a bunch of risk involved with that person and it could be a negative risk if something happens, you know, Whereas if one of your smaller influencers gets a DUI or someone, no one's going to know about it.
Speaker B:No one's going to talk about it, and it's not going to impact.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm saying DUI, but like whatever.
Speaker B:You know, you see celebrities get DUIs.
Speaker B:It's all over the news.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But you know, your neighbor gets a dui, no one hears about it.
Speaker B:So there's a lot less risk involved as well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's not only a lot less risk.
Speaker A:Less risk.
Speaker A:But for the same amount of money or even half the amount of money I would have invested into a large guy.
Speaker A:I can invest that into a hundred, two hundred smaller guys, theoretically, across the board and get double the reach and double the push and be more grateful and more thankful.
Speaker A:And they're not asking for.
Speaker A:I had, I had somebody reach out asking for $30,000 worth of product a month.
Speaker A:And I was like, well, what's my roi?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:People do it like, that's not how this works.
Speaker A:You gotta.
Speaker A:I need roi.
Speaker A:But if I, a small guy would go, hey, I need a thousand rounds a month.
Speaker A:Okay, what's my roi?
Speaker A:Well, this is what I'm doing in affiliate marketing.
Speaker A:This is what I'm doing here.
Speaker A:This is how many views I've gotten so far.
Speaker A:This is what, you know, my numbers.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:There, there's my number, there's my map.
Speaker A:There's my proven roi.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:And the same works with small companies like manufacturing.
Speaker B:Like, I'm nobody.
Speaker B:We're nobody.
Speaker B:Our shop's nobody.
Speaker B:We work really hard, but we got attention from some of the bigger shops and we make holsters for them now.
Speaker B:You know, and I am, we're so blessed to be able to have those relationships and have, you know, we work with psa, HK sig, fn, car arms, like Beretta.
Speaker B:You know, I gotta say, yeah, I make white label holsters for all these companies.
Speaker B:And it's the coolest thing and it's so much fun working with them.
Speaker B:And you get to get new guns ahead of schedule.
Speaker B:You get to, hey, I want to do a YouTube video on it too.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:I'll write a blog about it.
Speaker B:You know, like, I'll help with the release as well as support the aftermarket, as well as provider, you know, OEM white label for your web store at a really good price.
Speaker B:And, you know, no MOQ.
Speaker B: on a PO, you want to order: Speaker B:The same price, you get the same benefit.
Speaker B:Working with smaller companies, get one dude in a garage shop holsters, making holsters for Glock or something like that.
Speaker B:That dude is going to give Glock 150% effort, you know, to deliver them the best that they.
Speaker B:They can.
Speaker B:Maybe their consumer base is not big, but they get an opportunity because they networked well, you know, same thing works with smaller manufacturers as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, and I couldn't agree more.
Speaker A:I mean, just working with, I guess at the time Q was not that big.
Speaker A:They were getting big.
Speaker A:We did some stuff with 86 early on when I was at fax and it was the same thing like the amount of effort or even a good example would be like Hornady working with all the barrel manufacturers on launching new ammo.
Speaker A:They were always very receptive of getting new barrels out and getting stuff out.
Speaker A:When it came to new ammo lines.
Speaker B:They make 6 GT for GA Precision.
Speaker B:Want to say the real name out loud?
Speaker B:I shoot 6 GT but.
Speaker A:Well, we saw it with like what, 224 Valkyrie and then their new whatever, what's it called?
Speaker A: The: Speaker B:338 arc.
Speaker B:6 arc.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Every time they come out with a new caliber, they were sending stuff specs over stuff going like that's cool.
Speaker A:That's what we need.
Speaker A:We need more.
Speaker A:We need more collaborations between larger the companies in the aftermarket and the smaller companies to get stuff pushed.
Speaker B:And it's crazy.
Speaker B:There's some big companies I won't name like weapon light brands.
Speaker B:But like if I call Surefire, I'm like, hey guys, I need CAD for your new light.
Speaker B:They're like, oh, here's three lights.
Speaker B:Here's the cad.
Speaker B:Whatever else you need.
Speaker B:Oh, the, you know, our, our holster lights because we use like the rear lights.
Speaker B:The real guns that test fit everything.
Speaker B:Hey, we blew out a bunch of XC1 rail kits.
Speaker B:Like 30 show up, you know, now we can refab, refurb all our light.
Speaker B:So they're working, you know.
Speaker B:But there are major brands that were like, hey, can we get the cad?
Speaker B:They're like, no.
Speaker B:China one time stole this.
Speaker B:And I'm like, first of all, we're a reputable brand.
Speaker B:Second of all, just throw a non disclosure at it.
Speaker B:That will literally lace me up for the rest of my life if I violate it, you know.
Speaker B:Oh well, we had one person leak stuff to China or maybe China just copied you.
Speaker B:Like and it happens a lot with some brands where they'll get a change of leadership or something.
Speaker B:Like we can't share.
Speaker B:We can't share info.
Speaker B:It's like, just give me a NDA every year, put it on the calendar, make me sign a five year, send me the cad, send me some samples, don't make me pay for it.
Speaker B:Like there's some gun companies that send guns because we have to cut the tool.
Speaker B:Tool costs a lot of money.
Speaker B:Yeah, my tools cost like two.
Speaker B:If you actually quantify cost of tools and R D and like revisions, it's like probably two grand a tool.
Speaker A:It's insane.
Speaker B:And Then, you know, if a company hits you up, like, oh, we want OEM holsters, I was like, cool, give me the gun for free, and we'll cover the tooling so I don't have to buy the gun and the tooling, because it's gonna take time to, you know, make margins back.
Speaker B:Oh, you're only over 200 a year.
Speaker B:Like, cool.
Speaker B:Like, not making my money back.
Speaker B:So, you know, be nice with guns.
Speaker B:Give them away.
Speaker B:It's okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, give them away.
Speaker A:No, you're talking about the China thing.
Speaker A:It's funny.
Speaker A:The first time I've dealt with it was shot show.
Speaker A:The one year I watched a guy walk up to talking to mechanic is when they launched the.
Speaker A:The mechanic optic.
Speaker A:I was.
Speaker A:Janik.
Speaker A:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:Hey, Adam was on the show.
Speaker A:He said both.
Speaker A:He said both.
Speaker B:My wife is half Turkish.
Speaker A:Okay, so you win this.
Speaker A:So they just came out to it with it, and I'm sitting there talking to Brandon Finch over there.
Speaker A:We're having a conversation.
Speaker A:I look over, and this dude comes over.
Speaker A:He puts his thumb against the optic.
Speaker A:It's taking pictures.
Speaker A:And Brandon's like, get out.
Speaker A:And the guy's like, oh, what do you mean?
Speaker A:He goes, I know what you're doing.
Speaker A:Get out.
Speaker A:Yeah, but they do it all the time.
Speaker A:They'll come to shows.
Speaker A:They know this.
Speaker A:They know the measurement of this.
Speaker A:They'll just snap a picture or everything on there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Two of our optic mounts are being sold on a Chinese airsoft optic gear company.
Speaker B:You made it.
Speaker B:Also introduce me to Brandon.
Speaker B:Oh, I need.
Speaker B:Can it, cad.
Speaker A:I'll introduce you to Brandon.
Speaker A:But it's funny.
Speaker A:Like, is that.
Speaker A:Is that the sign that you made it that.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I was, like, looking at the price of.
Speaker B:It was like, 27 bucks.
Speaker B:It says, may not hold zero.
Speaker B:Might not actually hold onto your rail, depending on model of Airsoft.
Speaker B:I'm just like, all right, good.
Speaker B:Do you want to buy some?
Speaker B:Maybe not.
Speaker B:It's crazy, though.
Speaker B:Like, the Japanese hate knockoff Chinese airsoft.
Speaker B:We have a ton of customers from Japan buying optic mounts, like, the real deal.
Speaker B:They're all cloners over there.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah?
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is it that big in Japan?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, two of my optic mounts have.
Speaker B:Three of them have NATO stock numbers because they're in service, so.
Speaker B:The Japanese love cloning military guns, and they will.
Speaker B:They have, like, the highest quality airsoft guns, and they will pimp those things out with the real deal.
Speaker B:They'll buy real optics if they can itar stuff.
Speaker B:They'll Try to acquire itar stuff out of country, get it into them.
Speaker B:Like, they can't buy from the US for a lot of itar stuff, but they'll, you know, buy from Europe, buy from Asia that has, you know, they'll buy real eotechs.
Speaker B:They'll buy a lot stuff.
Speaker B:Makes their way over to Japan.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, they love it.
Speaker B:They're cool as hell.
Speaker A:Gotta meet some of these guys.
Speaker A:They just.
Speaker B:They're wild dudes.
Speaker A:I didn't know it was that big.
Speaker B:They're chicks too.
Speaker B:Are in airsoft.
Speaker B:Yeah, we.
Speaker B:It's like you're looking at your Instagram metrics, like where people are like watching your channel from or whatever.
Speaker B:And Japan's one of like the top 10.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's nuts.
Speaker A:And I didn't think too, but I know Britain had a big airsoft community.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Britain's cool too.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:It's funny how people with the most restricted gun control laws are like this most big into airsoft.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because they can't have it.
Speaker B:So they want to get as close as they can to feeling cool.
Speaker B:I mean, it is cool.
Speaker B:Airsoft's cool.
Speaker B:Clone.
Speaker B:Clone.
Speaker B:Airsoft is super cool.
Speaker B:It's like when someone gets a tattoo and they say it's a true.
Speaker B:Like, I got this for so and so.
Speaker B:It's like, no, you didn't.
Speaker B:You got.
Speaker B:Because you wanted.
Speaker B:You think it's cool.
Speaker B:That's why you're showing everyone.
Speaker B:It's just cool.
Speaker B:Enjoy it.
Speaker A:Well, let's get into some spicy stuff.
Speaker A:You've been straight to the point on a lot of your stuff and almost blunt with your marketing.
Speaker A:Marketing or marketing and firearms and gear reviews.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:So what do you.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:First off, why do you.
Speaker A:Why are you so blunt?
Speaker A:And what do you think that's helped you guys grow?
Speaker B:It's a hard to.
Speaker B:It's a great question.
Speaker B:I'm from Massachusetts.
Speaker B:There was a.
Speaker B:We're talking about this earlier.
Speaker B:There's a comedian.
Speaker B:I was talking about how people from New England, especially Massachusetts, we're not nice.
Speaker B:We're kind.
Speaker B:This comedian did this bit where it was like, oh, I moved to California.
Speaker B:Car broke down.
Speaker B:And people drive by like, oh, I'm so sorry, your tires popped.
Speaker B:You know, whatever.
Speaker B:Like, have a good day.
Speaker B:Good luck.
Speaker B:Hope your day gets better.
Speaker B:And then people from Mass are like, they'll pull over and help someone change.
Speaker B:Change tire if they don't know how to do it, but they'll make fun of you the whole time.
Speaker B:You know, that's.
Speaker B:That's kind of how we Are, you know, and it definitely burnt.
Speaker B:It definitely burns bridges.
Speaker B:That kind of like, if I have a problem with someone's like, yeah, why did you do this?
Speaker B:Like, it's so blunt, right?
Speaker B:And then people from Texas, west Coast are like, oh, he's mean.
Speaker B:You know, but it's all out of like, care, improvement, want to see people improve.
Speaker B:And, and that's been tough.
Speaker B:I've definitely been a little too blunt to some people.
Speaker B:Some people are too sensitive and can't take it.
Speaker B:And then they take that as like, you know, bad talk.
Speaker B:I'm trying not to swear, but, you know, they take it as being rude.
Speaker B:But, you know, if it, if you gotta look at the perspective of it, like, where is it coming from?
Speaker B:And you know, should I do reviews?
Speaker B:I make plastic buckets.
Speaker B:Guys can only be so sexy, you know, like, how do I make this holster super sexy?
Speaker B:Like, okay, I'm a shooter.
Speaker B:I'm going to do review content on YouTube because, like, if.
Speaker B:If you only see pictures of holsters on an Instagram page, are you going to follow that company?
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker B:You're going to want to follow someone who is speaking candidly about products, making products for stuff that they believe in.
Speaker B:Now, granted, we do make some holsters for some lights that I don't believe in, but everyone's money's the same.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I wanted to do something fun.
Speaker B:I wanted to make it fun.
Speaker B:And I think that since we do have a lot of opportunities, we get these guns and we get all these accessories ahead of the, like, new lights are coming out, new guns.
Speaker B:We get them so far ahead of schedule.
Speaker B:Six months, maybe in a year in advance.
Speaker B:Cz, back when CZ was like mega cool, before Colt, they used to send us guns.
Speaker B:I had a P.
Speaker B:I was the first person in the United states outside of CZ that had a P10.
Speaker B:The original P10 prototype trigger was the best out of the box trigger of any gun ever made.
Speaker B:And they got rid of it because of cost.
Speaker B:But I was like, don't get rid of this trigger.
Speaker B:You know, like, we've had some really cool opportunities to get some cool guns.
Speaker B:And it opened up, I saw that window and said, why don't we just make content, make sure that it's a gun that's production ready, not a prototype, get permission, film it when it comes out at launch.
Speaker B:There's some cool content that's coming out at launch day.
Speaker B:And I'm an engineer.
Speaker B:I have a bachelor's in engineering and I'm mechanical and I went to school for an MBA and dropped out before I finished.
Speaker B:Very close to finish.
Speaker B:And I just said, screw it.
Speaker B:But it's one of those things, like, why not provide candid, unadultered perspective.
Speaker B:Now I don't think anyone should listen to me.
Speaker B:You know, it's my perspective.
Speaker B:You should form your own perspective of things.
Speaker B:But if we can help guide people through that journey a little bit, save them some money, why not?
Speaker A:Well, that's, that's the thing with watching reviews and stuff.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker A:I've had this argument in a past job.
Speaker A:It's like, if AAC ammo were only to advertise ammo, like, that's not sexy.
Speaker A:Ammo is not sexy.
Speaker A:You need a gun.
Speaker B:Well, I don't know.
Speaker B:I think it is.
Speaker A:Well, but you need a gun to make it sexy and advertise it.
Speaker A:And I've had this argument with people.
Speaker B:Ammo is sexy.
Speaker B:If you know ballistics well, to the.
Speaker A:Average consumer, a picture of a 9 mil is not sexy.
Speaker A:Sure, but you need the sexy gun to get the ammo sold.
Speaker A:Yeah, I've had this argument with people.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's, it's ridiculous.
Speaker B:So there's two.
Speaker B:Definitely.
Speaker B:There's two perspectives to it.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So let's say we get a pre production prototype gun like FN.
Speaker B:Super cool.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Love FN's.
Speaker B:Like, dude, shoot it.
Speaker B:Day you get it, Go shoot it.
Speaker B:Tell me what you like and don't like about it.
Speaker B:I will give them feedback.
Speaker B:If they don't change that until the production gun comes out, I'm still going to talk about it in a video.
Speaker B:I'm going to say, hey, these mag extensions here for the extended mags for this gun are sharp and this is what I did to soften them up so they're less sharp.
Speaker B:I do enjoy this gun, but this is something I don't like about this gun.
Speaker B:If you're always just like on YouTube, all these, like, you see a gun come out, you see everyone post a new video, and it's always like, this is the best gun ever.
Speaker B:Like, that's not real.
Speaker B:There's problems with every single gun that come out.
Speaker B:Ergonomics, maybe the slide stops in the wrong location and certain hand sizes can ride that slide stop.
Speaker B:I've had triggers lock up on me a broken cans of blue cans apart.
Speaker B:You know, I've had people send me cans to do reviews and then I've had cans literally blow up and I'm like, hey, I'm not, I can't not post this online.
Speaker B:Like, first of all, no one pays us to do reviews.
Speaker B:It's usually like, hey, since we made a holster for you, can I do a YouTube video on it?
Speaker B:They're like, absolutely.
Speaker B:And I've already provided my feedback, you know?
Speaker B:And then there's other times where I buy something that's brand new and then kick myself for buying it before it's been tested by other people, because I'm a glutton for punishment.
Speaker B:I want to find out what's gonna.
Speaker B:You know, I want to find out what's good and bad about it.
Speaker B:And then people are like, why'd you buy that?
Speaker B:I was like, I don't know.
Speaker B:Sucked, you know?
Speaker B:Why didn't you wait for reviews to come out on it?
Speaker B:Because I wanted to do a review on it.
Speaker B:You know, I've been.
Speaker A:I've done the same.
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:I've done the same thing in the past.
Speaker A:There's been a couple guns where I knew they were bad.
Speaker A:I'm like, I want to give this a chance.
Speaker A:I'm gonna give it a chance.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then immediately the R51 comes to mind.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:I was like, this thing looks cool.
Speaker A:Everyone's like, this is a piece of garbage.
Speaker A:Like, it looks cool.
Speaker A:Then I buy it.
Speaker A:I'm like, it shoots okay, but it's sharp in the places.
Speaker A:Everybody said it was sharp.
Speaker A:And it hurts, but still looks cool.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Or like, a friend comes out with a rifle, and I buy it to be like, a homie and be like, yeah, dude, I'm gonna support you.
Speaker B:And then it's, like, super overpriced.
Speaker B:I was like, why is it this expensive?
Speaker B:Provide feedback.
Speaker B:You're like, okay, these things are dumb.
Speaker B:Why'd you do it this way?
Speaker B:Why is it this expensive?
Speaker B:And they're just like, oh, well, you know, starting this costs money.
Speaker B:And I'm like, no, it's gonna bite you in the ass in the long run.
Speaker B:And then they come out.
Speaker B:The rifle drops, like, 5, 700, $800.
Speaker B:And three months of owning it, I'm like, yeah, you just screwed over your foundation base of customers that are now looking at the price of the.
Speaker B:The same weapon system that has been improved from the first run.
Speaker B:That's not a good look, you know, But I'm going to be honest.
Speaker A:No, I mean, I like that.
Speaker B:And I tell them, like, this is a problem.
Speaker B:Did you fix it?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I'm still going to talk about it.
Speaker B:I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to make it horrible, but I'm going To bring attention to it.
Speaker A:Well, and that's the same thing.
Speaker A:Like, Ross Martin's a new company.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:When I was talking to Chris over there, he's like, try out my gun and let me know what you think.
Speaker A:I said, okay, I'll try out your gun.
Speaker A:So I call him.
Speaker A:I'm like, here's the issues.
Speaker A:Trigger's good.
Speaker A:I like the way it shoots.
Speaker A:You need more grip texture up here.
Speaker A:You need more pronounced stuff here.
Speaker A:And he goes, thank you.
Speaker A:And he's like, that's gonna come in Gen 2 or 3 or whatever.
Speaker A:It's people like that that we need more of in the.
Speaker A:In the industry.
Speaker A:Instead of being so butthurt when somebody gives you a bad review, take the constructive growth scissor and build off of it.
Speaker A:Because if you have that issue, there's gotta be like a bunch of other people.
Speaker A:I want to say 90%, but that's just such a high number.
Speaker A:But there's a bunch of other people who have the same issue that you had.
Speaker A:They need to just take it and go, cool, we got to fix it.
Speaker B:Like, hey, Chris, your guns are based off of the ARX Delta.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker A:Oh, I've asked him that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he gives you.
Speaker B:And he gives you an honest answer.
Speaker B:It's like, yeah, Starting a gun company is expensive.
Speaker B:Really expensive.
Speaker B:I mean, you look at companies that make good products, and then there's people in the US Are like, that's a great product.
Speaker B:But it's never going to do well here because it's X, Y and Z, it's made here or this, that and another.
Speaker B:And if you have an opportunity to do licensing, it's saving a lot of steps.
Speaker B:And you can enhance the product, have it made in the United States, make it in the United States and have.
Speaker B:And then improve in the US Market without having that.
Speaker B:Like we talked about Europe earlier.
Speaker B:Europeans are stuck in their ways, so.
Speaker B:But Americans aren't, you know, because, like, we have this.
Speaker B:We are so lucky that we have the most diverse firearms market on planet Earth.
Speaker B:And we have a very.
Speaker B:We find individual, individual words, individuality through our firearms.
Speaker B:You got the dudes that put red ano on their ars and skeletonize it, think it's the coolest thing ever.
Speaker B:And then you got the dudes that go full clone trying to get stolen government property to put on their guns, whatever.
Speaker B:But that creates individuality for their guns.
Speaker B:It's the same way people put racing stripes on a Honda Civic, you know, or whatever.
Speaker B:It gives you that individuality.
Speaker B:And we like to express ourselves through the ability to customize stuff, and other countries don't have that luxury, and we do.
Speaker B:So if you like a platform that's tanking in America, but you have an opportunity to enhance that brand and create a platform that you've put your touch on it and then it becomes yours, why not?
Speaker A:Alex, again, thank you for being on.
Speaker A:I appreciate it.
Speaker A:Go ahead and tell people where they can find you all that fun stuff.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for listening to me ramble.
Speaker B:I do a lot of rambling on Instagram.
Speaker B:Uh, we do ask me a question almost every day.
Speaker B:So if you have any questions for me, just go on our Instagram, which is a NR Design llc, and ask me a question.
Speaker B:I answer video response to all those questions.
Speaker B:Uh, we have a YouTube channel.
Speaker B:Just look up a NR Design LLC on YouTube, Twitter, LinkedIn, you know, all of them.
Speaker B:Anyway, thank you so much.
Speaker B:If you own one of our products, thank you so much for your patronage to the brand and thank you so much for having me.
Speaker A:No, I appreciate you being on.
Speaker A:I could have ran it for another, like, 20, 30 minutes, but yeah, we can talk.
Speaker A:We could talk.
Speaker A:Guys, thank you for watching.
Speaker A:Make sure to, like, share and subscribe.
Speaker A:Hit the little bell for notification.
Speaker A:Leave a five star review on all podcasting hosts and we will see you on the next one.
